Relic-side Chat

Here is a type of post I've never posted before: a conversation.

This is a conversation my friend, Tom, and I had over Gmail chat. He's been on a trip to New Mexico and has visited a couple cathedrals and missions from the early work the catholic church did over there. We discussed some of the merit of artifacts and holy sites as regarded by catholics. (I should admit I edited the conversation for typos, but the conversation remains completely in tact.)

Tom: dood

Trevor: hola

Tom: i figured out the advantages of the catholic church.

Trevor: ok what?

awesome hats?

red cloaks

the element of surprise?

fanatical devotion to the pope?

Tom: they may have a lot of things that I dont agree with, and yes, they do have awesome hats, but one really good thing is this: accessibility of the clergy

Trevor: ok, i'm done joking... elaborate

Tom: i visited chamayo yesterday... tiny little pueblo, people have been living there in the same way for hundreds of years. There's an old mission church there where theyve been celebrating mass for hundreds of years.

right by the front door

is the always open door to the father's office.

Trevor very nice

Tom: aye

Trevor the mission is still open?

wow

awesome

Tom: yeah

Tom: i was walking in to see the chapel, and a couple of parishioners walked in to see the padre. merely to talk and get his prayer for their son, who was sick.

Trevor sweet

Trevor "is anyone among you sick? Let him go to the elders to lay hands on him"

very nice

and i butchered the passage

but you know what I mean

Tom: also, the catholic church (at least the southwestern catholic church) seems to experience a lot more miracles.

aye. i love the idea

if i'm ever a pastor, my door will always be open.

and all my people will have my phone number.

Trevor awesome

Tom: the chapel at chimayo also had an entire room full of crutches on the wall.

no explanation

so my dad asked the padre

theyre all from people who have come to pray for healing, been healed, and left their crutches there.

Trevor wow

that's awesome

man, i wish i couldve gone

Tom: its sick, dude. we gotta road trip down here some time.

and, i also figured out what i think they have wrong.

Trevor what's that?

and it sounds like it's a lot different than catholic churches in other places

Tom: i'm not sure... these are the first catholic churches ive ever been in.

Trevor ok, but what do they have wrong?

Tom: the second commandment.

it's about images, and i originally thought it only applied to baals and asherahs etc.

Trevor i think you're right

Tom: but it talks about making images in order that they might worship God too. like the israelites did at Sinai-- they made a calf that represented the LORD who brought them out of egypt.

Trevor i disagree

i don't think it represented the LORD

i'd say that was just straight up idolatry

Tom: one sec. lemme show you the passage.

Trevor but i do agree with the graven images problem

Here it is

exodus 32:1

When the people saw that Moses was so long in coming down from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said, "Come, make us gods [a] who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who brought us up out of Egypt, we don't know what has happened to him

woah wait

i found it, verse five

“festival to the LORD”

...

Tom: "tomorrow shall be a fest to the LORD"

Trevor hm

Tom: so they still thought they were worshipping God

at least partly,

though they were trying to serve two masters.

Trevor but what about when he says "these are your gods"

Tom: yeah

Trevor hm...

Tom: so it's a combination of violating commandment 1 and 2

Trevor maybe we should check what word for Lord is used

Trevor is it YHWH?

Tom: lemme check

Tom: yehovah

Trevor so only the real God

Tom: aye

Trevor but why does it say ‘gods’ plural?

i'll look it up

Trevor the word he uses for gods is elohim

equivalent to our word for it

Tom: so, that's what i think the Catholic church does, to a certain extent. Which is not to say that there aren't catholic people who believe (and preach) Christ and Christ alone.

Trevor true

and how did the one you visited do in that regard?

Tom: I haven't attended a mass there, so I dont know about that. There are a ton of crosses though. like, literally an unbelievable number.

and images of just about every saint you can think of.

Trevor see the praying to saints thing is problematic

Tom: aye. Paul woulda been pissed.

Trevor haha

but the fact of all the healing gives (that particular church) a lot of credibility

Tom: yeah. it does. but still, why treat a particular place as sacred? its considered sacred because a man had a vision there at a spring, and found a crucifix buried in the sand. he built a chapel over the site (the hole where he found the crucifix has been preserved).

their faith in Christ is what heals them, not the location.

but then, if the location is what gives them the faith...

or the courage to have the faith...

Trevor then their faith is in the artifact

and the location

so what about Christ?

Tom: you're right.

so where does the healing come from?

Trevor well the question is if their faith is in Christ or the artifact

couldn't they have said the same of the apostles though??

Tom: elaborate...

Trevor when the apostles performed miracles, the people were healed

Tom: yes, but they were performed in the name of Christ.

Trevor they would not have just had faith and been healed without the apostles presence, they hadn’t been healed before that time

are the healings then not in the name of Christ?

and if they are praying to Christ...

then Christ healed them

just as Christ healed people through the apostles through their faith in Him

Tom: i think the Apostle's healings came from their own gifts- Christ gave them those gifts, they were seals of their apostleship.

Trevor So God's has gifted healing to people. can he gift healing to a place?

Tom: he's God. yes. And in the OT he made a lot of places holy, and made it so that the bronze post would heal the people of the snake bites.

so there is a precedent for it, in the OT.

but does the new covenant change any of that?

oh oh oh!!!

i think i get it.

Trevor i was just about to type the same exact question

Tom: well, type it, so that i can answer it.

Trevor but does the new covenant change any of that?

(i love copy and paste)

Tom: thank you, trevor, I was hoping you'd ask that.

lol

anyway

before the fall, Adam and Eve were able to commune with God on a spirit-level- very similar to how we commune with the Spirit today.

Trevor and in person

physical person

He walked among them..

but anyway i'm still listening

Tom: but after the fall, that ability was lost because of sin.

God had no dwelling place in the hearts of men, and thus under the old covenant dwelt in the Temple.

Trevor got it

Tom: so the temple, and any site where God chose to commune with man, was holy

however,

with the new covenant under Christ,

God was now able to commune with man in Spirit

once again.

or rather

man was now able to commune with God in spirit

once again.

Trevor i'm tracking

Tom: since man is now once again the temple of God, and the curtain has been torn,

there is no longer any need for holy ground.

Trevor so can man still communicate with God via holy ground?

whether or not it's necessary?

because the NM church sounds like an example of holy ground communication

Tom: Yes, he can communicate with God wherever he wants to. But the ground is no longer holy... It's the man that is, made holy by the blood of the Lamb.

Praise God!

Trevor Amen

and so when people come to the holy site with faith, God heals them by His Spirit

through the site and their hearts

or only their hearts?

or maybe it's just enough that God heals them

whether or not we understand how

because God still did it

Tom: yes.

God is holy, his people are holy, and he healed them at a specific site, though the site is not holy

but the site is sanctified in a way, because through its story, God is glorified.

Trevor so why is it more common at this site?

ok!

that makes sense!

10:30 PM Tom: yes!

and also,

God relates to different people groups in different ways. Americans are innately skeptical. It's not a good thing, but we are. Mexicans, and native americans, however, are known for superstition. Thus, God relates to them through visions, dreams, miracles, etc., more easily.

Trevor true!

he does the same to muslim converts

Tom: aye.

Trevor Kumal Saleem, and others i've heard about

Tom: that's the guy that spoke in chapel once right?

Trevor: aye

Patriotism

I realize this topic is going to be fiery so let's not get to passionate in arguing it out.

Now, a couple of my friends have been arguing about this, and one of them asked for my thoughts (yes, you two know who you are).

America. A beautiful, wealthy country. Sweet land of liberty. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We have countless blessings here. Plenteous food, cars, cell phones, and all the things we could ever want or need. What an amazing place.

So let's praise God for what we have, for the countless ways He has blessed us.

But we also have imorality and greed. We couldn't care less about the rest of the world. This horrid place worships the money we have. We live our lives to gain more and more. We are obsessed with sex and lust. What a horrible place.

So let's get out of here! Let's escape the evil sin and corruption.

I've had these previous two ideas war within my mind. I'm thankful for what I have here, but I want to escape the corruption here. I'm sick of being bombarded with the solicitations of idols, sex and money. In modern American culture, it's all that matters. When I complain saying things like, "I want to leave." or "I hate the evil here," my dad puts me in my place, "You've never lived in poverty, you don't know what it's like to live in dirty squalid conditions." If you know me, you know my dad's from India. He grew up in one of the most poverty-filled countries in the world. Having worked hard to get here, he knows how significant the blessings of America and its freedom are.

So where do we find the balance? Is it wrong to be discontented with this country, despite its blessings? Why do we enjoy the riches we have and complain about them at the same time?

Many people think that they will escape the evils of this country by leaving it, but they forget a significant principle we see both in our knowledge of the world, and in the Word. Americans are greedy, immoral and worship money, Haitians unashamedly worship the devil, Indians deliberately steal money and food directly from the poor, the Chinese persecute and attack the church. Welcome the the world. The world is corrupt. As much as super-patriots wouldn't like to admit, America is part of it.

Be thankful for the blessings you have here. Be thankful, but not unwilling to give them up. Don't worship them.

How do you know you aren't worshipping the wealth? Look at your reaction when someone asks for money; assess your heart when you see someone in need. Can you sacrifice your fancy new toy, so someone else can eat today?

As regards the other corruptions in America: like I said above, the world is corrupt. As the much quoted verse goes, "we are in the world but not of the world."

Everything Is Meaningless

Someone once told me that the book of Ecclesiastes was depressing. So until a few years ago, I stayed away from it. It was one of those books in the Bible I didn't expect to learn much from, given to the same lot as some of the books of the law: not very enriching (in fact, the analysis of God's requirements of holiness for His people is actually quite enriching.)

The repeated theme in Ecclesiastes can be summed up in three words: "everything is meaningless." Depressing, right? Everything you do on earth is lost when you die. In essence, your life is meaningless. No matter what you do, you still die. People are always oppressed. They are always greedy.

As I'm sure you have guessed, the fact that I started this post saying I was told the book was depressing means that I plan to contradict that statement. So here I go:

Although not defined by depression, this year has had its admittedly depressing moments. In those moments it takes the realization that everything is meaningless to comfort me. I am meaningless; my life is meaningless. I will not last. Because I will not last, my problems will not last. All of my worthless pursuits in life do not matter. With that realization, I don't even need painful situations to improve themselves. I simply realize that my problems don't matter, that God is everything. Ecclesiastes concludes by telling us to remember our Creator. To seek God with our lives. Everything else is meaningless. That includes girls, academics, parents, stress, worries. It's all meaningless. It doesn't matter. Only God matters. And trust me, God is far better than any of these things. So only let your heart be troubled if you find yourself at odds with God, (which we all tooften do). Focus your heart on the One who matters. He will take care of these meaningless peripheral things that we focus our worries and prayers on. Always remember that we and our pursuits are meaningless. The only meaningful pursuit is to follow God.

Thoughts Regarding Evangelism. Late Acts 2

After Pentecost, Peter preached to the men who accused him and the apostles of being drunkards.  Soon after, the profundity of Christ (and of course the Holy Spirit) prompted them to ask the apostles what they should do about it.  He told them to repent and to be baptized and turn to Christ: the most basic conditions for salvation that Christians learn from a very young age.  However, the basicness of these concepts have become rote to the majority of Christians.  We assume everyone knows the basic story of Christ. So why tell it?

Because the truth has the power to cut to the heart. Peter wasn't telling them just to do something.  Many evangelists attempt that method today. They tell people to repent and turn to Jesus.  That is where they start and end their evangelism.  Yes, we must all call on Jesus, but sometimes we neglect to tell them about Jesus first.

Many people struggle with the fear of leading the lost to Christ.  Why would any lost person do what I tell them? They have no reason to do so.  However, we were called as witnesses of Christ. Witnesses in a court simply report the events they have seen.  They do not try to decide the verdict; if they did, their testimony would be ignored as biased.  Of course a witness may have a desired outcome, but they do not have the ability to force their own verdict.

Has not Christ called us to be his witnesses?  We are to report what Christ has done, and the Holy Spirit will bring about the 'verdict.'  God will cause the seed to grow.  The lost will seek him because of the Holy Spirit's leading. Thus, God will do the work, simply present what He has done.

God Will Take Care of You

I wrote this psalm-esque poem in regards to a friend going through a hard time. I've been thinking about my role as a friend and one who "points the way" when I know I can't fix their problems. The good news that we all know is, of course, that God can. Only He can.

Oh Lord, You search the heart

You know the inner workings of the mind

Lord I lift up my prayer from a desire to be righteous,

                My petition from a pure and holy heart.

I ask you to keep my heart from foolishness

                Let my mind be free from distraction

Keep me from self worship

                Or to make myself an idol and king

Instead let me point the way to You

                The only wise and holy King

You make paths straight and heal the brokenhearted

                Your arms wrap around the hurting soul

Keep me from my selfish ways

                Let me not use my name for greatness

Instead let me point the way to You

                To lead others to Your righteousnes

                To guide their hearts to Your love

Welcome.

So this is my blog, where I am going to post writings and musings that I think you, the reader will enjoy.  If you have thoughts or something to add theologically, please comment.  Hopefully this will encourage you and uplift all of you, my brothers and sisters in Christ.

...so ya... I think this could be really cool.

I'll add some actual substance in time to come.

Till then, God bless.